1 00:00:12,762 --> 00:00:14,764 [buzzer blaring in distance] 2 00:00:15,473 --> 00:00:16,850 [metal door clangs] 3 00:00:20,395 --> 00:00:22,397 [indistinct chatter] 4 00:00:27,027 --> 00:00:28,486 [buzzer sounds] 5 00:00:30,697 --> 00:00:33,033 Hey, Erik. Sorry. 6 00:00:34,784 --> 00:00:37,829 It's okay. There's nothing else to do. 7 00:00:37,912 --> 00:00:42,584 Uh, I know, right? It's just terrible you're locked up in here. 8 00:00:42,667 --> 00:00:44,919 But that is what I am here for, right? 9 00:00:46,671 --> 00:00:48,548 You don't smoke, do you? 10 00:00:48,631 --> 00:00:49,883 No, never. 11 00:00:49,966 --> 00:00:50,966 Good. 12 00:00:51,634 --> 00:00:55,513 It is a disgusting habit, and I will never kick it. I know it. 13 00:00:55,597 --> 00:00:57,015 I wish I never started. 14 00:00:57,098 --> 00:00:59,309 Yeah, my... my dad smoked. 15 00:00:59,934 --> 00:01:01,853 - It just always disgusted me. - Good. 16 00:01:01,936 --> 00:01:04,022 Just the smell of it in his mouth. 17 00:01:04,105 --> 00:01:06,941 Well, I always try to chew a piece of gum afterwards. 18 00:01:07,025 --> 00:01:08,735 No, it doesn't bother me with you. 19 00:01:09,235 --> 00:01:10,235 Okay, good. 20 00:01:11,029 --> 00:01:12,906 Don't ever start, okay? 21 00:01:17,869 --> 00:01:18,703 [lighter clicks] 22 00:01:18,787 --> 00:01:19,788 [Leslie] Mmm. 23 00:01:21,873 --> 00:01:23,541 Uh. [exhales deeply] 24 00:01:25,335 --> 00:01:26,753 So... 25 00:01:26,836 --> 00:01:28,338 Yeah, so... 26 00:01:29,422 --> 00:01:30,799 How you doing in here? 27 00:01:31,883 --> 00:01:34,302 Uh, not, uh... Not great. 28 00:01:34,969 --> 00:01:37,514 Sure. But you're eating now, yeah? 29 00:01:37,597 --> 00:01:42,477 Yeah. It's more that, uh, ever since they found that letter and Lyle got moved, 30 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:47,065 I've been here in 7,000 by myself now, kinda. 31 00:01:47,148 --> 00:01:50,276 I... I found a friend who's just made being in here easier, 32 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,654 but, um, on Saturday, he was just gone. 33 00:01:52,737 --> 00:01:53,655 Oh no. 34 00:01:53,738 --> 00:01:58,368 Yeah, just... I don't know whether they moved him or where he went, but... 35 00:01:58,451 --> 00:01:59,536 Well, I'm sorry. 36 00:01:59,619 --> 00:02:02,914 It was just out of nowhere, so I've just been feeling kind of, uh... 37 00:02:03,915 --> 00:02:05,708 - Lonesome. - Yeah. 38 00:02:05,792 --> 00:02:07,293 [Leslie exhales] 39 00:02:07,377 --> 00:02:09,045 Well, I'm sorry about that. 40 00:02:11,714 --> 00:02:14,551 And, Erik, I'm sorry about what we have to talk about now. 41 00:02:14,634 --> 00:02:15,468 Okay. 42 00:02:15,552 --> 00:02:19,139 - Because, you know, I talked to Lyle... - Yeah, I know. 43 00:02:19,222 --> 00:02:20,932 Lyle's lawyer, Jill, was there too, 44 00:02:21,015 --> 00:02:24,102 and I actually asked Jill if I could just come talk to you alone today. 45 00:02:24,185 --> 00:02:25,186 Oh, okay. 46 00:02:25,687 --> 00:02:27,105 And she was okay with that. 47 00:02:28,106 --> 00:02:30,191 - I think I prefer this. - Okay, good. 48 00:02:30,275 --> 00:02:34,863 Because I talked to Lyle about the things you told Dr. Vicary. 49 00:02:34,946 --> 00:02:35,780 Yeah. 50 00:02:35,864 --> 00:02:40,743 And, um, you know, rough stuff with Lyle, 51 00:02:40,827 --> 00:02:45,331 but with your dad too, and... and the objects, 52 00:02:45,415 --> 00:02:48,501 and the things that Lyle did to you, 53 00:02:48,585 --> 00:02:52,255 but also the things he knew that were going on with you and your dad, 54 00:02:52,338 --> 00:02:56,718 and how he thought it had stopped, and when he found out it hadn't, that... 55 00:02:56,801 --> 00:02:58,094 Yeah, all of that. 56 00:02:58,178 --> 00:03:02,599 Yeah. And Lyle told you about his experience 57 00:03:02,682 --> 00:03:04,851 with your dad, with the abuse, yeah? 58 00:03:04,934 --> 00:03:07,312 Yes. That's what we, uh... 59 00:03:08,396 --> 00:03:11,482 In the days leading up to that night, that's what we talked about, 60 00:03:11,566 --> 00:03:15,862 kind of for the first time, like we were, uh, comparing notes. 61 00:03:15,945 --> 00:03:17,322 - Sure. - I guess you could say. 62 00:03:17,405 --> 00:03:19,157 But not... not in a happy way. 63 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,827 Like, it was good to finally talk about it, 64 00:03:22,911 --> 00:03:24,746 to have it be out in the open. 65 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,334 Okay. And just to ask, just to say it out loud... 66 00:03:29,417 --> 00:03:31,002 You believe him. Yeah? 67 00:03:34,881 --> 00:03:38,009 - Yeah. I know he's telling the truth. - Yes. 68 00:03:38,092 --> 00:03:40,470 - What? Am I supposed... - No, so do I. 69 00:03:40,553 --> 00:03:44,849 I just... I just want to keep underlining that for all of us is all. 70 00:03:45,808 --> 00:03:49,896 That however much you loved this man, he was a monster. 71 00:03:49,979 --> 00:03:51,522 And that what he did was real. 72 00:03:51,606 --> 00:03:56,527 And so, you know, I think that Lyle's point of view 73 00:03:56,611 --> 00:03:59,280 is that however bad he had it, 74 00:03:59,364 --> 00:04:01,991 and I really do get this feeling from him, 75 00:04:02,951 --> 00:04:05,119 he feels you had it worse. 76 00:04:09,374 --> 00:04:10,374 Yeah. 77 00:04:12,752 --> 00:04:15,255 - Mm-hmm. - Yeah. It was, um, much worse. 78 00:04:16,923 --> 00:04:18,007 - Can you... - Sure. 79 00:04:18,091 --> 00:04:22,136 I just need you right now, if you can, to just tell me everything. 80 00:04:22,220 --> 00:04:23,930 - Yeah. Okay. - Can you do that? 81 00:04:24,013 --> 00:04:25,014 Yeah. I can. 82 00:04:25,098 --> 00:04:26,099 Okay. 83 00:04:27,267 --> 00:04:28,267 Um... 84 00:04:31,145 --> 00:04:33,773 Where... Where should I start? I... 85 00:04:33,856 --> 00:04:35,108 I know. It's awful. 86 00:04:35,191 --> 00:04:36,276 Um... 87 00:04:37,610 --> 00:04:41,698 Well, I guess... I would just ask... 88 00:04:42,865 --> 00:04:44,659 Do you remember when it started? 89 00:04:46,244 --> 00:04:47,244 Hmm. 90 00:04:47,870 --> 00:04:49,539 Yeah, uh... 91 00:04:51,833 --> 00:04:54,002 Well, it kinda seems like it was always happening, 92 00:04:54,085 --> 00:04:56,379 because, I mean, I was always afraid of him. 93 00:04:56,462 --> 00:04:59,841 - Your dad or Lyle? - My dad. I was never afraid of Lyle. 94 00:05:00,550 --> 00:05:04,387 I always felt like Lyle was my, uh, my protector. 95 00:05:04,470 --> 00:05:06,222 Even when he was abusing you? 96 00:05:06,306 --> 00:05:08,099 Yeah. He... he wasn't. 97 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,103 I just mean that... 98 00:05:13,062 --> 00:05:16,274 Like, my earliest memories are of running away. 99 00:05:16,899 --> 00:05:19,485 You know, I was, like, five or something, and I wouldn't get far. 100 00:05:19,569 --> 00:05:23,239 I would just get to, uh, my aunt's house just a few blocks down. 101 00:05:23,323 --> 00:05:24,490 And it was like, um... 102 00:05:26,367 --> 00:05:29,787 Well, because that's what Lyle said when he found out I was still... 103 00:05:30,496 --> 00:05:33,416 He was... He was like, mad, right? 104 00:05:33,499 --> 00:05:34,334 [Leslie] Hmm. 105 00:05:34,417 --> 00:05:38,296 And he said, you know, "Erik, how could you let this happen?" 106 00:05:38,379 --> 00:05:41,257 "Do you like it or something? 'Cause you could just run away." 107 00:05:41,341 --> 00:05:44,093 I was like, "Because they always come find me." 108 00:05:44,177 --> 00:05:47,597 Every time I tried, they would find me, and it just would get worse. So... 109 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,932 - So running away never helped? - No. No. 110 00:05:50,016 --> 00:05:52,810 My mom and my dad and my whole family, 111 00:05:52,894 --> 00:05:55,438 they were like this octopus that you could never escape from. 112 00:05:55,521 --> 00:05:58,775 Because their tentacles would come and grab you? 113 00:06:00,610 --> 00:06:03,071 - Or... - Yeah. Something like that. 114 00:06:03,696 --> 00:06:04,697 Um... 115 00:06:06,157 --> 00:06:10,119 But as far as when it started, Lyle thinks I was six. 116 00:06:10,203 --> 00:06:12,955 And, uh, that seems right. 117 00:06:13,039 --> 00:06:15,541 - That's when your father started with him. - Right. 118 00:06:15,625 --> 00:06:18,461 - So that makes some sense. - Yeah. And I, uh, didn't... 119 00:06:19,837 --> 00:06:20,922 Um... 120 00:06:21,923 --> 00:06:24,092 - What? - Well, that's when I had Coach Wadlington. 121 00:06:24,175 --> 00:06:26,177 I was six when I started with him. 122 00:06:26,260 --> 00:06:31,432 And I remember it was happening around then, or... 123 00:06:32,350 --> 00:06:33,893 Well, the massages did. 124 00:06:36,229 --> 00:06:37,230 Erik, what? 125 00:06:38,731 --> 00:06:41,943 - It didn't start out bad, you know? - Yeah. 126 00:06:42,026 --> 00:06:45,613 It would just be after tennis, or after swimming, and... 127 00:06:46,656 --> 00:06:47,656 Um... 128 00:06:50,410 --> 00:06:52,662 - Mm-hmm. Go on. - Uh... [exhaling] 129 00:06:53,287 --> 00:06:56,666 Well, I knew that my dad didn't like me. 130 00:06:57,458 --> 00:06:58,668 How do you mean? 131 00:06:58,751 --> 00:07:01,796 Just... He was always so mean. 132 00:07:02,630 --> 00:07:06,217 You know, he loved Lyle, but he didn't love me. 133 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:09,345 And, uh, I could tell, but he would also say it. 134 00:07:09,429 --> 00:07:11,740 - He'd call me these names and they were... - What kinda names? 135 00:07:11,764 --> 00:07:14,559 Just stuff you shouldn't say to a... a kid. Like... 136 00:07:16,727 --> 00:07:19,105 stupid, or faggot. 137 00:07:19,188 --> 00:07:20,106 Okay. 138 00:07:20,189 --> 00:07:23,901 And so then you're always trying to impress him, or to not make him mad. 139 00:07:23,985 --> 00:07:27,196 And my mom would... she would do it, too. They would gang up on me. 140 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,824 Like, if I said I was scared of the closet, 141 00:07:29,907 --> 00:07:32,535 they'd lock me in the closet until I stopped screaming. 142 00:07:32,618 --> 00:07:36,122 And, I think they were laughing, so I knew I wasn't gonna die. 143 00:07:36,205 --> 00:07:37,665 But still, it was just like... 144 00:07:39,208 --> 00:07:40,626 "Why would you do that?" 145 00:07:40,710 --> 00:07:42,545 Or, uh, the basement. 146 00:07:42,628 --> 00:07:45,756 - They'd lock you in the basement? - Yeah. Because I was scared of it. 147 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:47,508 It was to toughen me up. And... 148 00:07:47,592 --> 00:07:49,844 [Leslie scoffing] How long? 149 00:07:49,927 --> 00:07:52,305 Just all afternoon, or until I stopped crying. 150 00:07:52,388 --> 00:07:56,392 And my mom would do it too, but it was mostly my dad. 151 00:07:57,143 --> 00:07:58,436 That's awful. 152 00:07:58,519 --> 00:08:03,774 So, anyways, when, uh... when you know your dad thinks you're weak, 153 00:08:03,858 --> 00:08:08,070 or, uh, I don't know, too scared, 154 00:08:08,154 --> 00:08:12,366 or something, like, not tough enough. 155 00:08:12,450 --> 00:08:16,704 And, well, then you start to think, "Well, I guess I'm not tough enough." 156 00:08:16,787 --> 00:08:18,873 And he's always mad at you. 157 00:08:19,916 --> 00:08:22,793 Like, then the times that he's not. 158 00:08:23,503 --> 00:08:26,422 And the times when he takes you upstairs 159 00:08:26,506 --> 00:08:29,258 and says, uh, "You know, let's take a shower," 160 00:08:29,342 --> 00:08:31,552 and he was... 161 00:08:32,470 --> 00:08:33,888 Well, at first, he was, uh... 162 00:08:34,639 --> 00:08:37,433 - Like, he was finally nice. You know? - Hmm. 163 00:08:37,517 --> 00:08:40,895 Like, to see that side of him where he was, um... 164 00:08:42,563 --> 00:08:43,981 - Tender. - Yeah. 165 00:08:44,065 --> 00:08:48,861 Because it was then, like, he could stop being mad when no one else was there. 166 00:08:49,487 --> 00:08:52,114 But around everyone else and even when family was over, 167 00:08:52,198 --> 00:08:55,660 he would just call you those names or he would hit you 168 00:08:55,743 --> 00:08:58,996 and everyone... everyone saw it. 169 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,708 But when it was just you and him, that's... that's when he would, um... 170 00:09:06,879 --> 00:09:09,257 - What? - That's when he'd tell me he loved me. 171 00:09:10,758 --> 00:09:12,718 - When he was abusing you? - Yeah. 172 00:09:13,219 --> 00:09:14,303 It... it wasn't... 173 00:09:15,137 --> 00:09:18,766 [exhales] It was just the massages at first, 174 00:09:18,849 --> 00:09:23,604 like, with oil, or he'd have his shirt off and I'd just be in my shorts, and it was... 175 00:09:24,313 --> 00:09:25,565 [Erik sighs] 176 00:09:25,648 --> 00:09:28,067 - What? - All the other stuff hadn't started yet. 177 00:09:28,150 --> 00:09:31,988 And so it was just like time 178 00:09:33,281 --> 00:09:39,203 being with my dad where I felt like he cared about me. 179 00:09:40,621 --> 00:09:43,833 And, uh, it was just me and him. 180 00:09:44,709 --> 00:09:45,835 And that was good. 181 00:09:46,544 --> 00:09:49,505 Like, those were my favorite memories. 182 00:09:50,214 --> 00:09:51,215 [Leslie] Mm-hmm. 183 00:09:54,427 --> 00:09:56,262 And then the massages changed? 184 00:09:57,096 --> 00:10:00,349 [Erik inhales and exhales deeply] 185 00:10:00,975 --> 00:10:01,851 Yes. 186 00:10:01,934 --> 00:10:02,768 [Erik clears throat] 187 00:10:02,852 --> 00:10:06,731 He would say, uh, turn over and he'd do my front. 188 00:10:06,814 --> 00:10:07,857 And by front? 189 00:10:07,940 --> 00:10:09,400 He'd massage my penis. 190 00:10:10,234 --> 00:10:12,695 - Okay. - And so we'd fondle each other. 191 00:10:12,778 --> 00:10:16,741 - But it... it still wasn't, uh... - What? 192 00:10:16,824 --> 00:10:20,286 Like it... it wasn't scary yet, what we were doing, 193 00:10:20,369 --> 00:10:23,623 except I think I didn't want to, like I would try not to do it. 194 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,000 The front part? 195 00:10:27,501 --> 00:10:31,380 Yeah, because he'd be lying on his back and I'd try to skip that part, 196 00:10:31,464 --> 00:10:34,759 and he'd say, "No, you have to do that." 197 00:10:35,593 --> 00:10:39,639 And, uh, just... then the mouth massages as I got older. 198 00:10:39,722 --> 00:10:42,475 Like Lyle said, with the objects and the toothbrush and... 199 00:10:42,558 --> 00:10:43,558 How old? 200 00:10:43,934 --> 00:10:47,021 Uh, definitely second grade 'cause... 201 00:10:47,521 --> 00:10:48,814 - The toothbrush? - Mm-hmm. 202 00:10:48,898 --> 00:10:50,941 Because I remember the day at school afterwards, 203 00:10:51,025 --> 00:10:55,321 there was a picture of a toothbrush on the bulletin board or whatever, 204 00:10:55,404 --> 00:10:57,406 just about how you should go to the dentist. 205 00:10:57,490 --> 00:10:59,950 And, um, I remember thinking 206 00:11:00,034 --> 00:11:03,204 that the toothbrush in the picture wouldn't have hurt as much. 207 00:11:04,538 --> 00:11:05,623 [Leslie] Hmm. 208 00:11:06,540 --> 00:11:12,880 Uh, and so there were four different kinds of... of sex with my dad. 209 00:11:12,963 --> 00:11:16,509 There was nice, which was the, um... 210 00:11:17,510 --> 00:11:19,637 Well, the massages came before, but... 211 00:11:20,888 --> 00:11:24,934 [sighs] Then, when he started making me use my mouth, it was just... 212 00:11:26,811 --> 00:11:29,605 It was too big, and I, uh, I didn't... I didn't like that. 213 00:11:29,689 --> 00:11:30,564 Yeah. 214 00:11:30,648 --> 00:11:33,401 - Doing that to him seemed really dirty. - Yeah. 215 00:11:34,193 --> 00:11:36,696 [sighs deeply] When he did it to me, that was... 216 00:11:40,074 --> 00:11:43,953 But to him, the... the naked... He called them "naked mouth massages." 217 00:11:44,036 --> 00:11:46,831 - Doing that to him felt really dirty. - Yeah. 218 00:11:46,914 --> 00:11:49,291 Uh, and I didn't like it, 219 00:11:49,375 --> 00:11:53,504 but he would say, you know, "You did good. Good boy." 220 00:11:53,587 --> 00:11:55,631 And it was just... 221 00:11:56,882 --> 00:12:02,430 the only time I felt like I had a real relationship with my dad, 222 00:12:02,513 --> 00:12:06,100 where I felt that he did love me. 223 00:12:07,810 --> 00:12:12,314 And, uh, they'd go on for a long time, the nice sex sessions. 224 00:12:13,274 --> 00:12:16,152 Sometimes I started to wonder where everybody else was 225 00:12:16,235 --> 00:12:18,487 just because they'd go on for so long. 226 00:12:18,571 --> 00:12:23,367 And in a lot of ways, even though it felt dirty, it was also like... 227 00:12:25,035 --> 00:12:28,164 like I was the center of the world for once, you know? 228 00:12:28,247 --> 00:12:31,041 - Mm-hmm. - And it... it also felt... 229 00:12:33,085 --> 00:12:34,085 Nice? 230 00:12:37,882 --> 00:12:38,924 [Leslie] Mm-hmm. 231 00:12:40,885 --> 00:12:41,719 Go on. 232 00:12:41,802 --> 00:12:43,512 The objects were to get me ready. 233 00:12:44,263 --> 00:12:46,515 Lyle and I realized that when we finally, um... 234 00:12:47,224 --> 00:12:48,768 - When you talked about it. - Yeah. 235 00:12:48,851 --> 00:12:52,563 And that he was, uh, preparing our bodies 236 00:12:52,646 --> 00:12:55,191 for something bigger. 237 00:12:56,525 --> 00:12:59,320 And, uh, at first he made me do it to him. 238 00:12:59,987 --> 00:13:00,987 Do? 239 00:13:02,239 --> 00:13:03,239 Sex. 240 00:13:03,949 --> 00:13:06,660 Like, to penetrate him. 241 00:13:06,744 --> 00:13:07,744 [Leslie] Hmm. 242 00:13:08,412 --> 00:13:11,874 He always said he wanted to teach me how to use my... my penis. 243 00:13:12,583 --> 00:13:15,669 - And that felt really dirty every time. - Yeah. 244 00:13:15,753 --> 00:13:17,171 And I didn't like it. 245 00:13:18,088 --> 00:13:19,089 And, um... 246 00:13:21,133 --> 00:13:24,053 - What? - In order to do that, you have to be... 247 00:13:25,095 --> 00:13:26,096 Erect. 248 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,435 That... That''s what was so, uh, weird about it. 249 00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:32,978 And that I could ever... 250 00:13:34,438 --> 00:13:35,689 - Um... - What? 251 00:13:39,777 --> 00:13:40,986 [sighs deeply] 252 00:13:42,613 --> 00:13:44,413 - [Leslie whispers] It's okay. - Or... orgasm. 253 00:13:47,743 --> 00:13:51,205 That was, uh, really confusing to me at that age. 254 00:13:51,831 --> 00:13:53,165 Of course it would be. 255 00:13:53,249 --> 00:13:54,249 Uh... 256 00:13:56,252 --> 00:13:57,503 And then he... he... 257 00:13:59,338 --> 00:14:02,216 Then he started to rape me and that... 258 00:14:03,717 --> 00:14:07,054 He'd take a slat from underneath the bed and he'd put it under the doorknob... 259 00:14:07,137 --> 00:14:08,137 Oh my God. 260 00:14:08,180 --> 00:14:11,809 And I... I would cry, and it hurt, 261 00:14:11,892 --> 00:14:16,355 and he'd say, "You know, why can't you be like Lyle?" 262 00:14:16,939 --> 00:14:18,941 "Just be a Menendez and get used to it." 263 00:14:20,985 --> 00:14:22,027 And I just... 264 00:14:25,239 --> 00:14:29,118 I remember feeling so, um... disappointed 265 00:14:29,201 --> 00:14:34,164 because he was comparing us again, 266 00:14:34,248 --> 00:14:38,377 Lyle and me, like I wasn't good enough again, 267 00:14:38,460 --> 00:14:42,631 and like, all of the stuff that he'd said about loving me, 268 00:14:42,715 --> 00:14:45,759 like, that was just gone. 269 00:14:45,843 --> 00:14:48,596 Or like that had never even, like, happened. 270 00:14:52,099 --> 00:14:53,934 How often did this happen? 271 00:14:54,018 --> 00:14:55,019 The just sex? 272 00:14:55,102 --> 00:14:56,102 Mm-hmm. 273 00:14:56,437 --> 00:15:00,399 Um, like, two or three times a month? 274 00:15:01,358 --> 00:15:02,358 From when? 275 00:15:02,735 --> 00:15:03,735 Uh... 276 00:15:04,153 --> 00:15:05,779 Like, junior high, I think. 277 00:15:05,863 --> 00:15:06,947 So 11. 278 00:15:07,031 --> 00:15:08,031 Mm-hmm. 279 00:15:08,073 --> 00:15:09,158 Until... 280 00:15:09,241 --> 00:15:11,619 - Uh, right before... - Right before they're dead? 281 00:15:11,702 --> 00:15:14,830 - Yeah. Just a few months before. - Was the last time? 282 00:15:14,914 --> 00:15:15,914 Yes. 283 00:15:18,125 --> 00:15:19,125 Erik... 284 00:15:21,003 --> 00:15:25,257 You were raped hundreds of times by your father? 285 00:15:26,884 --> 00:15:27,884 Yes. 286 00:15:29,470 --> 00:15:31,889 That was just what my life was like. 287 00:15:33,724 --> 00:15:35,309 I'm so sorry, Erik. 288 00:15:35,392 --> 00:15:36,936 It's okay. It's just... 289 00:15:37,019 --> 00:15:38,103 You kind of, uh... 290 00:15:39,104 --> 00:15:40,230 You get through it. 291 00:15:40,314 --> 00:15:43,150 Yeah, and you just, um, survive, I guess. 292 00:15:43,859 --> 00:15:47,613 You live for those times when it doesn't happen, you know? 293 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:49,490 And you think, like... 294 00:15:49,573 --> 00:15:50,573 [sniffs] 295 00:15:50,616 --> 00:15:53,035 Well, I mean, you do get through it. It's like... 296 00:15:55,871 --> 00:15:59,416 It's like... It's like Christmas morning, you know? 297 00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:01,627 And you think, "Okay, I got through that, 298 00:16:01,710 --> 00:16:05,255 I'm not gonna have to, uh, do that for a while now." 299 00:16:05,339 --> 00:16:07,549 Or, "Maybe because this time, it was knees, 300 00:16:07,633 --> 00:16:10,344 maybe next time, it'll be nice sex or maybe..." 301 00:16:10,427 --> 00:16:11,512 Sorry. Knees? 302 00:16:12,137 --> 00:16:14,390 Well, that was another one of the, um... 303 00:16:15,057 --> 00:16:18,394 I had different names for things. Knees was... It wasn't my favorite. 304 00:16:18,477 --> 00:16:22,523 It'd be when I do the mouth massages to him, and he would, uh... 305 00:16:24,024 --> 00:16:25,025 What? 306 00:16:25,109 --> 00:16:25,985 [exhales deeply] 307 00:16:26,068 --> 00:16:30,280 He would finish, I guess, in my mouth, and I just hated the taste of it. 308 00:16:30,364 --> 00:16:32,950 That's why I started putting the cinnamon into his coffee 309 00:16:33,033 --> 00:16:35,202 and putting lemon on my food and stuff. 310 00:16:35,285 --> 00:16:38,872 - The cinnamon was for the taste. - To make it taste better. 311 00:16:38,956 --> 00:16:42,167 So if I had done that or I had gotten through that, 312 00:16:42,251 --> 00:16:45,754 I'd think, "Maybe next time, he'll do a mouth massage to me, 313 00:16:45,838 --> 00:16:48,048 or it'll just not be the rough sex." 314 00:16:48,132 --> 00:16:50,968 I just... I never wanted it to be the rough sex. 315 00:16:52,845 --> 00:16:53,845 [sighs] 316 00:16:54,179 --> 00:16:56,140 And what was rough sex like? 317 00:17:00,019 --> 00:17:01,186 Uh, just... 318 00:17:03,647 --> 00:17:04,647 Just... 319 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:07,400 hitting, 320 00:17:08,068 --> 00:17:11,196 and, um, really painful. 321 00:17:11,989 --> 00:17:16,577 He would get mean, and he would punch me, and he was really strong. 322 00:17:17,077 --> 00:17:18,203 [Leslie clears throat] 323 00:17:18,287 --> 00:17:20,122 [exhales] And I couldn't, um... 324 00:17:21,498 --> 00:17:25,002 I don't know why, but for some reason, I just could never hit him back. 325 00:17:25,085 --> 00:17:27,546 It was like when I was little, when I was running away. 326 00:17:27,629 --> 00:17:30,090 Like, it just doesn't work. You... [sniffling] 327 00:17:30,174 --> 00:17:32,634 You can't get out of it. 328 00:17:32,718 --> 00:17:35,262 Like, he won't stop. You just have to do it. 329 00:17:35,345 --> 00:17:39,308 You have to just try to, uh... to get... get through it. 330 00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:42,561 But the, um, the rough sex was... 331 00:17:44,605 --> 00:17:46,273 - [Erik sighs] - [Leslie] Hmm. What? 332 00:17:48,609 --> 00:17:49,526 Uh... 333 00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:52,571 I'd have to, um, kneel on the headboard. 334 00:17:52,654 --> 00:17:55,783 But, like, at the end of the bed, like the foot of the bed. [sniffling] 335 00:17:55,866 --> 00:17:58,035 But, like, it'd be into my shins. 336 00:17:58,118 --> 00:18:00,913 So it'd be stuff to make it hurt. 337 00:18:00,996 --> 00:18:03,332 Because he would always say, "This is what the Greeks did." 338 00:18:03,415 --> 00:18:06,085 "This is how they toughened themselves up to make things not hurt." 339 00:18:06,168 --> 00:18:08,837 So if it hurt, you had to try to get through it. 340 00:18:08,921 --> 00:18:12,049 So I'd be inserting objects into my, um... 341 00:18:12,674 --> 00:18:17,096 Or, like, with my penis, like pins or, uh... 342 00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:20,265 Like, he cut my leg. Like, I've got a scar on my leg 343 00:18:20,349 --> 00:18:24,311 because he'd be doing this stuff while I'd be doing the mouth massages to him. 344 00:18:24,394 --> 00:18:28,649 And he'd be, uh, you know, just trying to toughen me up. 345 00:18:28,732 --> 00:18:31,777 But, um, when... 346 00:18:32,861 --> 00:18:37,241 when he's tying something around your penis, like a rope or, like... 347 00:18:37,866 --> 00:18:41,411 like, I don't think that's supposed to make someone tough. Like... 348 00:18:41,495 --> 00:18:42,496 No, it does not. 349 00:18:43,413 --> 00:18:46,917 Wait, that's more kind of, like, torturing someone? 350 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,210 Yes, Erik. 351 00:18:48,293 --> 00:18:52,464 And I just don't think that's what a father's supposed to, uh... 352 00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:54,590 No, it's not. 353 00:18:54,633 --> 00:18:57,010 Like, that's not what you do to someone you, um... 354 00:18:58,220 --> 00:19:00,180 That's what you do to someone you hate, you know? 355 00:19:00,264 --> 00:19:03,225 - Erik, you did not deserve that. - He'd call me these, like... 356 00:19:03,725 --> 00:19:04,768 [exhales deeply] 357 00:19:04,852 --> 00:19:08,564 Sometimes it was what he would say that would somehow hurt even more, like... 358 00:19:08,647 --> 00:19:09,523 Like what? 359 00:19:09,606 --> 00:19:12,901 I just wanted to say to him, like, "If I'm such a faggot, 360 00:19:13,652 --> 00:19:16,238 then why are you asking me to fuck you in the ass?" 361 00:19:16,321 --> 00:19:17,990 You know? Like, that's... 362 00:19:18,073 --> 00:19:20,117 - Yeah. - You know? And I... 363 00:19:21,285 --> 00:19:22,494 - What? - I don't know. 364 00:19:22,578 --> 00:19:26,206 - No, what were you going to say? - No, I don't know. I don't know. 365 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,296 And you're supposed to... I mean... 366 00:19:33,172 --> 00:19:36,133 Like, this is a man who did such amazing stuff, you know? 367 00:19:36,216 --> 00:19:38,135 Like, my dad was an amazing man. 368 00:19:38,218 --> 00:19:41,805 I loved him so much. And I still love him so much. 369 00:19:41,889 --> 00:19:45,017 And that's why I'm like... I don't wanna be in here for the rest of my life, 370 00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:48,520 because, like, to have that thought, like... 371 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,191 to have that thought, 372 00:19:52,816 --> 00:19:55,402 laying alone in here in a cell at night, all cooped up in here, 373 00:19:55,485 --> 00:19:57,404 and to have that be a thought you're thinking... 374 00:19:57,487 --> 00:19:58,363 What thought? 375 00:19:58,447 --> 00:20:00,866 Like, that I love my dad. 376 00:20:01,450 --> 00:20:02,534 Like, that's... 377 00:20:03,785 --> 00:20:04,912 [sighs deeply] 378 00:20:04,995 --> 00:20:09,082 Like, it wasn't the rough sex, the pins, and the rope that were the torture. Like... 379 00:20:10,209 --> 00:20:12,461 Like, that would be the torture. To, uh... 380 00:20:13,212 --> 00:20:15,797 To still love him. 381 00:20:17,049 --> 00:20:22,346 And that's why Lyle used to say, you know, "Erik, they'd be proud of us." 382 00:20:22,429 --> 00:20:25,182 And I'd always agree with him. 383 00:20:25,265 --> 00:20:29,102 But then later, I'd think, I mean, "They're not proud that we killed them." 384 00:20:29,895 --> 00:20:32,439 But then, just the last few days in here, 385 00:20:33,357 --> 00:20:36,193 and really since Saturday, like, just thinking a lot, 386 00:20:36,276 --> 00:20:38,111 it just really occurred to me that... 387 00:20:38,195 --> 00:20:39,071 What did? 388 00:20:39,154 --> 00:20:41,365 That he probably would. You know? 389 00:20:42,449 --> 00:20:44,993 Like in Heaven, right now, he'd be looking down, and he'd say, 390 00:20:45,077 --> 00:20:46,411 "Thank you, Erik and Lyle." 391 00:20:46,495 --> 00:20:48,789 "You know, you did what you had to do to me 392 00:20:48,872 --> 00:20:52,042 because what I did to you was really wrong." [sniffling] 393 00:20:52,125 --> 00:20:53,126 "And I love you." 394 00:20:53,210 --> 00:20:55,629 "And you... you took that off my shoulders," 395 00:20:55,712 --> 00:20:59,549 or, "You took that off my soul," or whatever, if that makes sense. 396 00:20:59,633 --> 00:21:01,093 - I don't know. - It does. It does. 397 00:21:01,176 --> 00:21:03,720 "You made me into someone who doesn't do that anymore," 398 00:21:03,804 --> 00:21:05,639 is what Lyle meant, and what I mean. 399 00:21:05,722 --> 00:21:09,184 So that now I could... Now we can love him again. 400 00:21:10,102 --> 00:21:12,980 Really, for the first time, because he's not doing that anymore. 401 00:21:13,063 --> 00:21:13,981 Wow. 402 00:21:14,064 --> 00:21:17,818 So, that's why I don't want to be here, all alone, 403 00:21:18,318 --> 00:21:20,279 with that thought banging around my head, 404 00:21:20,362 --> 00:21:23,240 not without Lyle not here, and my friend gone now. 405 00:21:23,323 --> 00:21:24,323 [sniffs] 406 00:21:28,412 --> 00:21:31,039 [buzzer blaring in distance] 407 00:21:31,123 --> 00:21:32,165 [door clanging] 408 00:21:34,001 --> 00:21:35,001 What? 409 00:21:36,670 --> 00:21:40,590 No, I'm just... I'm just blown away by you, Erik Menendez. 410 00:21:40,674 --> 00:21:44,052 - You don't... You... you shouldn't say that. - No, I mean it. I really, really do. 411 00:21:44,136 --> 00:21:46,138 [sniffs] Really do. 412 00:21:46,221 --> 00:21:48,432 I know a lot of people. 413 00:21:48,932 --> 00:21:51,268 I know a lot of very impressive people, 414 00:21:51,935 --> 00:21:54,271 and you are right at the top. 415 00:21:55,022 --> 00:21:59,192 With everything you have been through and what you have had to do, 416 00:21:59,735 --> 00:22:03,488 and who you are right now, telling me all of this... 417 00:22:04,323 --> 00:22:07,200 The bravery, Erik? 418 00:22:08,618 --> 00:22:13,040 You are just an incredible person, and I just have to say it. 419 00:22:13,123 --> 00:22:15,042 - [sniffs] And... - Thank you. 420 00:22:15,125 --> 00:22:16,752 I'm not gonna make this about me, 421 00:22:16,835 --> 00:22:20,005 but, you know, my father was a fucking son of a bitch. 422 00:22:20,088 --> 00:22:21,965 [chuckles] 423 00:22:22,049 --> 00:22:23,800 - Really? - Yeah. Yeah. 424 00:22:23,884 --> 00:22:25,635 Abandoned me and my brother. 425 00:22:25,719 --> 00:22:29,765 Just... This man that I loved, told me I was his little princess, 426 00:22:29,848 --> 00:22:33,560 and he just dropped off without so much as a word, 427 00:22:33,643 --> 00:22:38,148 ran away with another family, and I haven't heard from him in 34 years. 428 00:22:38,231 --> 00:22:40,192 - [sniffs] And... - Oh, I'm so sorry. 429 00:22:40,275 --> 00:22:42,986 Well, thank you. I... Nothing like yours. 430 00:22:43,070 --> 00:22:46,406 I just say that by way of, you know, hearing all of this, 431 00:22:46,490 --> 00:22:48,367 which is just mind-boggling, 432 00:22:48,450 --> 00:22:51,078 and hearing it, thank you, 433 00:22:51,745 --> 00:22:53,497 is just, you know... 434 00:22:54,790 --> 00:22:56,708 You don't have to forgive him. 435 00:22:57,876 --> 00:23:00,212 Your father. Okay? 436 00:23:00,295 --> 00:23:03,632 My father wasn't one-tenth of one-millionth 437 00:23:03,715 --> 00:23:05,634 of a percentage as bad as yours. 438 00:23:05,717 --> 00:23:07,552 Okay, just no comparison. 439 00:23:08,261 --> 00:23:10,555 And my brother, he's forgiven him. 440 00:23:10,639 --> 00:23:12,265 You know, he talks to him. 441 00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:14,350 But, Erik, 442 00:23:15,644 --> 00:23:21,108 no fucking way will I forgive him for what he did. 443 00:23:21,191 --> 00:23:23,360 Not now, not ever. 444 00:23:24,152 --> 00:23:27,906 And I just say that 'cause you have that option, too. 445 00:23:29,574 --> 00:23:30,826 - Okay? - Okay. 446 00:23:30,909 --> 00:23:33,036 Because, you know, hearing all this, 447 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:36,373 I... I just have to keep asking myself and asking you, 448 00:23:37,416 --> 00:23:40,419 where was your mother in all of this? 449 00:23:40,502 --> 00:23:43,588 - Well, see because she... - Let's not make excuses for her. 450 00:23:43,672 --> 00:23:44,965 He cheated on her. 451 00:23:45,048 --> 00:23:48,051 And Lyle said he walked in on them one time, and my dad was raping her. 452 00:23:48,135 --> 00:23:49,719 Okay, well, that's still... 453 00:23:49,803 --> 00:23:51,972 My dad ruined her life, I think. 454 00:23:52,055 --> 00:23:55,392 And she would sometimes say, which, well, wasn't even... 455 00:23:55,892 --> 00:23:56,935 She would, um... 456 00:23:57,769 --> 00:23:58,603 [sighs] 457 00:23:58,687 --> 00:23:59,687 [Leslie] What? 458 00:24:00,605 --> 00:24:05,235 With Lyle, she would sometimes... she would sometimes get naked. 459 00:24:05,318 --> 00:24:06,862 - This is your mother? - Yes. 460 00:24:06,945 --> 00:24:10,282 But it wasn't... it wasn't like it was with my dad. 461 00:24:10,365 --> 00:24:11,365 She was... 462 00:24:11,867 --> 00:24:14,911 She just wanted us to think she had a nice body, and she liked ours. 463 00:24:14,995 --> 00:24:16,496 But it was just looking. Or... 464 00:24:17,372 --> 00:24:20,333 Well, yeah, it was just looking. 465 00:24:20,417 --> 00:24:21,417 She would... 466 00:24:23,462 --> 00:24:26,006 When I was 16, she started doing this thing where... 467 00:24:26,089 --> 00:24:28,758 Because I think by then, the stuff with Dad was intense. 468 00:24:28,842 --> 00:24:29,842 And she... 469 00:24:30,385 --> 00:24:31,219 [sighs deeply] 470 00:24:31,303 --> 00:24:35,265 My mom would do this thing where she would inspect my... 471 00:24:36,516 --> 00:24:37,726 - Penis? - Yeah. 472 00:24:37,809 --> 00:24:40,228 And, you know, she'd be like, "Why do you shave it all?" 473 00:24:40,312 --> 00:24:41,771 And I'd be like, "No, Dad did that." 474 00:24:41,855 --> 00:24:45,275 But I couldn't say that because, well... 475 00:24:45,358 --> 00:24:47,569 [sighing] It was weird 'cause we were close. 476 00:24:47,652 --> 00:24:49,321 But then Dad also had these girlfriends, 477 00:24:49,404 --> 00:24:51,990 so, I think that she also thought I was, too. 478 00:24:52,073 --> 00:24:54,534 - Was what? - That I was sleeping with Dad. 479 00:24:54,618 --> 00:24:55,911 So, I was... 480 00:24:57,162 --> 00:24:58,413 She... she was... 481 00:24:58,497 --> 00:25:00,081 I... I was coming between them. 482 00:25:00,624 --> 00:25:02,918 And that wasn't ever something that we talked about. 483 00:25:03,001 --> 00:25:04,878 Like, she would've never said anything. 484 00:25:04,961 --> 00:25:07,589 It was something you knew, but didn't talk about 485 00:25:07,672 --> 00:25:09,341 because that was just our family. 486 00:25:09,424 --> 00:25:10,675 But I knew how she felt. 487 00:25:11,551 --> 00:25:15,805 And her feeling that way was why I think she, like, made me get a girlfriend, 488 00:25:15,889 --> 00:25:17,724 but she would do the inspections, right? 489 00:25:17,807 --> 00:25:19,935 - Of your... - She'd do inspections of my... Yeah. 490 00:25:20,018 --> 00:25:22,062 Because she was terrified of AIDS, 491 00:25:22,145 --> 00:25:25,815 and she would always check me for blisters, like, on my penis. 492 00:25:25,899 --> 00:25:28,777 And I think it was because it was a way to see if, like... 493 00:25:29,611 --> 00:25:32,030 You know, because I think she knew that Dad and I were, 494 00:25:32,113 --> 00:25:34,115 so if one of Dad's girlfriends had something... 495 00:25:34,199 --> 00:25:36,493 - Hold on. - ...then I got it, that means she'd get it. 496 00:25:36,576 --> 00:25:38,036 I wanna go back for a second. 497 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:39,871 Actually, it's not important. 498 00:25:39,955 --> 00:25:42,165 - Forget that. - But why did she think you had AIDS? 499 00:25:42,249 --> 00:25:45,085 - It's not important. Just forget it. - But why would she think that? 500 00:25:45,168 --> 00:25:48,004 - I said, it's not important. Forget it! - What I mean is... 501 00:25:48,088 --> 00:25:51,383 She just wanted to make sure, so she'd do those inspections. That's why. 502 00:25:51,466 --> 00:25:57,180 But why would she think you would get AIDS? 503 00:25:57,764 --> 00:26:01,101 And before you answer that, I just wanna say that I'm not your mother. 504 00:26:01,184 --> 00:26:03,478 Okay? And frankly, I don't like your mother. 505 00:26:03,562 --> 00:26:06,481 - Yeah, but she was... - I'm sorry. No. That's not a mother, Erik. 506 00:26:06,565 --> 00:26:08,024 Okay? And I am a mother. 507 00:26:08,817 --> 00:26:10,485 Wasn't the perfect one, I'm sure. 508 00:26:10,569 --> 00:26:13,488 Maybe that's why I want another shot at it, okay? 509 00:26:13,572 --> 00:26:16,324 But for you to... I mean, I know you loved her. 510 00:26:16,408 --> 00:26:18,076 I do. We were really close. 511 00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:20,203 Lyle and her weren't, but me and her, we were. 512 00:26:20,287 --> 00:26:23,415 - Everyone's gonna love their mother. - Yes, and I do. 513 00:26:23,498 --> 00:26:27,877 But for her to have known, and to have not intervened... 514 00:26:27,961 --> 00:26:29,170 Yes. Because she was... 515 00:26:29,254 --> 00:26:32,048 No, but let me... I'm sorry. Let me just say this and we can go back. 516 00:26:32,132 --> 00:26:36,219 Because there were a lot of avenues that she could have taken there, okay? 517 00:26:36,303 --> 00:26:38,388 Where she could have gone to the authorities, 518 00:26:38,471 --> 00:26:42,058 where she could have said, "No, not my sons." 519 00:26:42,142 --> 00:26:44,603 "You will not abuse my sons!" Right? 520 00:26:45,854 --> 00:26:47,856 - Yes. - And that's a pretty low bar, okay? 521 00:26:47,939 --> 00:26:49,149 And she didn't do that. 522 00:26:49,983 --> 00:26:51,526 She didn't do any of that. 523 00:26:52,902 --> 00:26:54,821 Not because of you. Look at me. 524 00:26:55,322 --> 00:26:58,366 Not because of you, but because of her. 525 00:27:00,201 --> 00:27:01,201 Okay? 526 00:27:01,536 --> 00:27:03,330 So for you to... 527 00:27:03,413 --> 00:27:04,748 Yes, you can love her. 528 00:27:04,831 --> 00:27:08,293 Yes, you can sympathize with her, and then I wanna ask you something. 529 00:27:08,376 --> 00:27:11,171 I wanna say this to you, and I'd say it to Lyle... 530 00:27:11,254 --> 00:27:14,049 You deserved better than her. 531 00:27:15,258 --> 00:27:17,886 I won't even mention your father. That goes without saying. 532 00:27:17,969 --> 00:27:22,015 That man is in a place is all I'll say. 533 00:27:22,098 --> 00:27:23,183 But your mom too. 534 00:27:23,933 --> 00:27:28,438 And if what you are saying is true, and what Lyle is saying is true, 535 00:27:28,521 --> 00:27:30,857 you deserved better. 536 00:27:31,733 --> 00:27:34,319 Okay? So that's just where I'm coming from. 537 00:27:36,112 --> 00:27:37,112 But, Erik, 538 00:27:38,365 --> 00:27:41,201 can you tell me why she thought you had AIDS? 539 00:27:41,284 --> 00:27:42,577 Can you just tell me? 540 00:27:43,953 --> 00:27:45,246 [sighs deeply] 541 00:27:47,624 --> 00:27:48,958 Well, see, um, 542 00:27:50,251 --> 00:27:51,961 this is what's so hard. 543 00:27:52,045 --> 00:27:52,962 What? 544 00:27:53,046 --> 00:27:54,046 About... 545 00:27:54,089 --> 00:27:56,216 Because I don't know. 546 00:27:59,969 --> 00:28:03,139 I don't know what way you are and what way you're supposed to be 547 00:28:03,223 --> 00:28:04,974 when that's your childhood. 548 00:28:05,475 --> 00:28:08,561 Like, when that's what your dad's doing to you. Like... [sniffs] 549 00:28:12,023 --> 00:28:16,027 [sighing] Well, I remember one time, my mom, she called Lyle and me, 550 00:28:16,111 --> 00:28:17,654 and I don't think she meant it, 551 00:28:17,737 --> 00:28:19,989 but she screamed at us, like, "You're sociopaths!" 552 00:28:20,073 --> 00:28:25,495 And a part of me was like, "Well, maybe we are sociopaths, 553 00:28:25,578 --> 00:28:28,456 but can you blame us if we are, 554 00:28:28,540 --> 00:28:30,709 when you know what's been happening to us?" 555 00:28:31,209 --> 00:28:33,962 So, like, the feelings I have of, like... 556 00:28:35,672 --> 00:28:38,591 sex stuff or, um, or... 557 00:28:38,675 --> 00:28:39,884 - Orientation. - Yeah. 558 00:28:39,968 --> 00:28:44,139 Or of Dad's, or like whatever feelings I have, or which way I... 559 00:28:45,014 --> 00:28:46,057 Like, I just... 560 00:28:47,016 --> 00:28:51,771 I don't... I don't know if it's me or how I was supposed to be. 561 00:28:53,732 --> 00:28:56,192 And, uh, that's why she... 562 00:28:57,902 --> 00:29:00,488 With the inspections when I was 16 because... 563 00:29:03,992 --> 00:29:04,992 It's okay. 564 00:29:05,452 --> 00:29:07,579 I don't want to say who it was, but, um... 565 00:29:10,373 --> 00:29:11,374 I was... 566 00:29:12,959 --> 00:29:16,671 I was kind of in love with a boy. 567 00:29:18,173 --> 00:29:20,258 Or a teenager like me, who was a boy. 568 00:29:20,341 --> 00:29:21,217 Okay. 569 00:29:21,301 --> 00:29:23,470 But it was because I was having sex with my dad, 570 00:29:23,553 --> 00:29:25,388 like, that's not normal. 571 00:29:25,472 --> 00:29:29,517 And that made me not normal. And so he wasn't... He didn't... 572 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,354 He... This boy, he didn't have a dad who did that to him. 573 00:29:33,438 --> 00:29:36,983 He was just always that way, but I'm not sure I was, 574 00:29:37,066 --> 00:29:41,112 and I'm... I'm not sure I am, but like, I have those feelings. Like... 575 00:29:43,448 --> 00:29:45,617 I was in love with someone, and, uh... 576 00:29:47,243 --> 00:29:51,790 he, this boy, we said we would never say each other's names and I won't. 577 00:29:52,499 --> 00:29:56,753 But when we had sex then, it was... it wasn't like it was with my dad. 578 00:29:56,836 --> 00:29:57,836 It was... 579 00:29:58,546 --> 00:29:59,547 Nice. 580 00:30:01,049 --> 00:30:02,217 It was really nice. 581 00:30:03,968 --> 00:30:05,261 It was really nice. 582 00:30:07,847 --> 00:30:11,100 [sniffs] And in here, it was... was really nice, but now it's... 583 00:30:12,435 --> 00:30:14,312 Whatever. It doesn't matter. But, um... 584 00:30:16,815 --> 00:30:17,815 Okay. 585 00:30:19,651 --> 00:30:22,487 - Okay. - No, actually, I don't think you, uh... 586 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,281 No, I understand. 587 00:30:25,365 --> 00:30:29,077 No, I... I think you think I'm saying something different than I am. 588 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,870 Like, yes, I've done certain things. 589 00:30:30,954 --> 00:30:33,081 And so, you know, you're gonna say I'm one way, 590 00:30:33,164 --> 00:30:35,458 and you're gonna tell everyone I'm one way, but I'm not. 591 00:30:35,542 --> 00:30:38,545 - No, I'm not. I'm not gonna tell anyone. - I'm actually... No. 592 00:30:38,628 --> 00:30:40,463 Okay. But what I'm saying is... 593 00:30:40,547 --> 00:30:42,507 I'm just saying, I don't know. 594 00:30:43,091 --> 00:30:45,218 Okay? I don't know what I am. 595 00:30:45,301 --> 00:30:49,138 I can't tell what I am, and I never will be able to tell is what I'm saying. 596 00:30:49,222 --> 00:30:51,349 And yeah, maybe I am a sociopath, 597 00:30:51,432 --> 00:30:54,519 and maybe I should've got AIDS, and maybe I'll only like it this way. 598 00:30:54,602 --> 00:30:56,187 Because with girls, it was like, 599 00:30:56,271 --> 00:30:59,232 how could I even know when he's done this to me? 600 00:30:59,816 --> 00:31:03,111 When it's been happening for so long, I don't remember when it started. 601 00:31:03,194 --> 00:31:06,656 When I can't remember a time when my dad wasn't fucking me. 602 00:31:06,739 --> 00:31:09,576 - Like, he broke me. I'm a broken person. - No, you're not. 603 00:31:09,659 --> 00:31:13,079 Yes, I am. He broke me in two. He cracked me in half. 604 00:31:13,162 --> 00:31:15,290 - I am not a real person. - You are a real person. 605 00:31:15,373 --> 00:31:17,458 You can't be when the only man you wanna love 606 00:31:17,542 --> 00:31:19,377 does that to you, you stop being real. 607 00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:21,754 - You are real. - Stop saying that. 608 00:31:24,966 --> 00:31:26,801 Just stop. 609 00:31:31,347 --> 00:31:32,765 I am the Hurt Man. 610 00:31:37,103 --> 00:31:38,605 What is the Hurt Man? 611 00:31:42,442 --> 00:31:43,442 [inhales deeply] 612 00:31:43,860 --> 00:31:44,860 It's me. 613 00:31:48,489 --> 00:31:51,284 - That's the name for yourself? - Yes, since I... 614 00:31:51,784 --> 00:31:54,746 - Since when you were little. - For as long as I can remember. 615 00:31:56,414 --> 00:31:57,957 That's what I call myself. 616 00:31:59,042 --> 00:32:00,042 Since forever. 617 00:32:01,502 --> 00:32:02,962 That's always been my name. 618 00:32:06,215 --> 00:32:07,550 And it's never gonna end. 619 00:32:09,135 --> 00:32:10,637 And it's never gonna not hurt. 620 00:32:13,806 --> 00:32:15,391 I shot my mom in the face. 621 00:32:16,726 --> 00:32:17,936 And my dad, I think. 622 00:32:19,812 --> 00:32:23,441 That's not a... [sniffling] That's not a normal thing you do. 623 00:32:24,609 --> 00:32:27,487 So... I don't know what I am. 624 00:32:28,154 --> 00:32:29,948 And I don't think I'll ever know 625 00:32:30,031 --> 00:32:32,784 is what I realized since Saturday if I don't get out of here. 626 00:32:32,867 --> 00:32:35,870 - I will get you out of here. - No. Stop, stop saying that. 627 00:32:40,541 --> 00:32:44,671 I will never really know who I am if I don't get out of here. 628 00:32:47,006 --> 00:32:48,007 I'll never know. 629 00:32:59,310 --> 00:33:01,312 [female vocalizing] 630 00:33:04,190 --> 00:33:06,192 [somber music playing] 631 00:34:17,013 --> 00:34:18,931 [music ends]